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	<title>Comments on: Handicaps</title>
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		<title>By: atomweaver</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-442</link>
		<dc:creator>atomweaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Even more so than Magic, the Jyhad/Vampire:TES community has a difficult time with the issue of handicapping effectively; the game has a lower turnover rate than Magic, and thus more active players with over a decade of experience.  That leaves a bigger gap for new players to span, which further hinders an already difficult learning curve.
  The most frequent handicap in those instances that I&#039;ve seen is poorly-tuned decks for the experienced player.  Until recently, precons have been consistently very weak, and so are a fairly effective handicap, and enjoyable for the experienced player, as well, as they are challenged to devise untried tactics, and sometimes utilize infrequently used game resources (the so-called &#039;wallpaper&#039; cards)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even more so than Magic, the Jyhad/Vampire:TES community has a difficult time with the issue of handicapping effectively; the game has a lower turnover rate than Magic, and thus more active players with over a decade of experience.  That leaves a bigger gap for new players to span, which further hinders an already difficult learning curve.<br />
  The most frequent handicap in those instances that I&#8217;ve seen is poorly-tuned decks for the experienced player.  Until recently, precons have been consistently very weak, and so are a fairly effective handicap, and enjoyable for the experienced player, as well, as they are challenged to devise untried tactics, and sometimes utilize infrequently used game resources (the so-called &#8216;wallpaper&#8217; cards)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mammalman</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-440</link>
		<dc:creator>Mammalman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/?p=271#comment-440</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t played magic for years but I used to love it and I mess around with designing games and thinking about this kind of stuff. Just stumbled on this blog recently through Quadradius. 

What about giving a weaker player a pool of X rainbow mana that he can spend at any time during the game? It&#039;s not absolutely perfectly even with respect to different kinds of decks,  but probably better than adjusting life totals or hand sizes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t played magic for years but I used to love it and I mess around with designing games and thinking about this kind of stuff. Just stumbled on this blog recently through Quadradius. </p>
<p>What about giving a weaker player a pool of X rainbow mana that he can spend at any time during the game? It&#8217;s not absolutely perfectly even with respect to different kinds of decks,  but probably better than adjusting life totals or hand sizes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan N.</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/?p=271#comment-320</guid>
		<description>I think one of the elements that makes board/card games especially hard to handicap is the wide division between skill and mechanics.  In squash, tennis, basketball or any other physical sport, the mechanics and skill are tightly bound together. In many cases success at a sport is decided by a player&#039;s skill at performing the various manuevers involved.  The same can be said about many competitive
 video games, coordination, precision and speed in operating the controls seperate the tiers of skill.

In games the mechanics are usually mastered by most players within a few play sessions.  Turning cards, moving pieces, and adjusting stats are all &#039;manuevers&#039; that each player can perform at the same level (though I feel making dinosaurs out of my reserve trains in Ticket to Ride does set me apart :P ).  In most games you need to know and be able to execute all the mechanics just in order to play.  However, &#039;skill&#039; at these games is defined by careful and deliberate use of the mechanics, that all players can use equally, to achieve the goal.

This puts strategy at the front of games, while in sports it is generally second to ability. High performing sports players are definitely playing with strategy in mind, however, they have already mastered the mechanics necessary to execute those strategies.

For a naive example, say two players are playing a card game.  One player is physically incapable of drawing a card every third turn even though the game rules say he has to draw a card every turn (regular lapses of Papyrophobia).  The other player is at a mechanical advantage and thus a handicap requiring him to skip every 3rd turn of his would even the game out.  This leaves the stragey, deck building and general play flow of the game unmolested while accounting for the other&#039;s disability.

That is not to say one can&#039;t use handicaps in games to make it more fun for all, it is just a more delicate operation. One often has to approach it from a &#039;redesign and refine the rules&#039; perspective rather than changing the context in which it is played.

Thanks for the article</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the elements that makes board/card games especially hard to handicap is the wide division between skill and mechanics.  In squash, tennis, basketball or any other physical sport, the mechanics and skill are tightly bound together. In many cases success at a sport is decided by a player&#8217;s skill at performing the various manuevers involved.  The same can be said about many competitive<br />
 video games, coordination, precision and speed in operating the controls seperate the tiers of skill.</p>
<p>In games the mechanics are usually mastered by most players within a few play sessions.  Turning cards, moving pieces, and adjusting stats are all &#8216;manuevers&#8217; that each player can perform at the same level (though I feel making dinosaurs out of my reserve trains in Ticket to Ride does set me apart <img src='http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  ).  In most games you need to know and be able to execute all the mechanics just in order to play.  However, &#8216;skill&#8217; at these games is defined by careful and deliberate use of the mechanics, that all players can use equally, to achieve the goal.</p>
<p>This puts strategy at the front of games, while in sports it is generally second to ability. High performing sports players are definitely playing with strategy in mind, however, they have already mastered the mechanics necessary to execute those strategies.</p>
<p>For a naive example, say two players are playing a card game.  One player is physically incapable of drawing a card every third turn even though the game rules say he has to draw a card every turn (regular lapses of Papyrophobia).  The other player is at a mechanical advantage and thus a handicap requiring him to skip every 3rd turn of his would even the game out.  This leaves the stragey, deck building and general play flow of the game unmolested while accounting for the other&#8217;s disability.</p>
<p>That is not to say one can&#8217;t use handicaps in games to make it more fun for all, it is just a more delicate operation. One often has to approach it from a &#8216;redesign and refine the rules&#8217; perspective rather than changing the context in which it is played.</p>
<p>Thanks for the article</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C.</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/?p=271#comment-311</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve not actually tried this one (though the reverse is common), but what about playing with decks built by the weaker player?  Or if the skill level is similar, swapping decks?

As I see it, deck building is a huge part of the skill curve, and making the best of a &quot;bad&quot; deck might be a fun exercise for a skilled player.  Granted, it seems the more skilled player should still win more, since he/she understands the game better.   But, at least it might make things a bit more sporting for gross mismatches.

The typical solution of giving the noob a &quot;good &quot; deck only goes so far in helping because, in a lot of cases, the synergy of a good deck is wasted on the novice.  If it is a teaching game, that is something different since the synergy should be explained as you go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not actually tried this one (though the reverse is common), but what about playing with decks built by the weaker player?  Or if the skill level is similar, swapping decks?</p>
<p>As I see it, deck building is a huge part of the skill curve, and making the best of a &#8220;bad&#8221; deck might be a fun exercise for a skilled player.  Granted, it seems the more skilled player should still win more, since he/she understands the game better.   But, at least it might make things a bit more sporting for gross mismatches.</p>
<p>The typical solution of giving the noob a &#8220;good &#8221; deck only goes so far in helping because, in a lot of cases, the synergy of a good deck is wasted on the novice.  If it is a teaching game, that is something different since the synergy should be explained as you go.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Carlson</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-310</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Carlson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/?p=271#comment-310</guid>
		<description>I think handicapping Magic is extremely hard, if not impossible to do fairly. Life doesn&#039;t always matter because a deck can win via milling or poison counters, or more realistically a red burn deck facing an opponent with less life has a lot better chance at winning than a combo deck who can combo on the same turn with regularity, but for it life doesn&#039;t matter.

Also reducing starting hand sizes would be tough, because some decks can win with very few cards in hand while others can&#039;t. I think the best way to handicap Magic is to reduce the effectiveness of your deck, which keeps it fun for both players, because then you&#039;re playing with the same rules and have an &quot;equal&quot; chance at winning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think handicapping Magic is extremely hard, if not impossible to do fairly. Life doesn&#8217;t always matter because a deck can win via milling or poison counters, or more realistically a red burn deck facing an opponent with less life has a lot better chance at winning than a combo deck who can combo on the same turn with regularity, but for it life doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>Also reducing starting hand sizes would be tough, because some decks can win with very few cards in hand while others can&#8217;t. I think the best way to handicap Magic is to reduce the effectiveness of your deck, which keeps it fun for both players, because then you&#8217;re playing with the same rules and have an &#8220;equal&#8221; chance at winning.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Schulz</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Schulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/?p=271#comment-309</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve actually been involved in a regular Magic group for many many years, and we do keep results for most of our games but completely agree that life is not really a great handicap for the game.  What about starting cards?  I feel like cards in hand are more powerful then life and can rarely imagine situations where it&#039;s good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve actually been involved in a regular Magic group for many many years, and we do keep results for most of our games but completely agree that life is not really a great handicap for the game.  What about starting cards?  I feel like cards in hand are more powerful then life and can rarely imagine situations where it&#8217;s good.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/?p=271#comment-307</guid>
		<description>I had forgotten the toes John, perhaps I should have mentioned them as a cost of the handicap system!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had forgotten the toes John, perhaps I should have mentioned them as a cost of the handicap system!</p>
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		<title>By: John Golden</title>
		<link>http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/archives/271#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>John Golden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.threedonkeys.com/blog/?p=271#comment-306</guid>
		<description>But what about the broken toes that inevitably follow squash handicaps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what about the broken toes that inevitably follow squash handicaps?</p>
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